The Pennock Knockdown: How To Build Effective Organic Social and Marketing Strategies for Growing Brands
Watch or Listen to Episode 7
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Autumn Morgan runs a consultancy offering fractional marketing work within the Owned Media lane, organic social, copyrighting, and events.
Autumn is a marketer, writer, and avid reader with more than 10 years of experience in the marketing world. She uses her background in journalism and psychology to help businesses around the world build successful, future-focused marketing strategies that resonate with customers and set them apart from competitors.
Brands Mentioned
Transcript
Nikki Lindgren: Welcome to another episode of the Pennock Knockdown, a podcast where we unpack key strategies and tactics for digital marketing leaders. I'm super excited today to be joined by Autumn Morgan. Autumn, thanks for joining.
Autumn Morgan: Thanks for having me.
Nikki Lindgren: Autumn runs a consultancy where she offers fractional marketing work within the owned media lane, primarily focused on organic social, copywriting, and events—probably some other things I'm forgetting. But, Autumn, we're so excited to get your perspective on how things are going in marketing. I'd love to start with a little bit about how you got to this stage in your career and why consultancy was the right fit for you as a primary focus.
Autumn Morgan: I always knew that I wanted to own my own business, but back when I started my career, I thought I would actually go more into the publishing space versus marketing or e-commerce. So, I thought I would open my own publishing company and become a book editor. And now I have clients that are book editors, so I get to experience the publishing realm but from a marketing side of things. I got my start in social media marketing at a small agency called Goldpine Interactive, run by my mentor Derek Haney and his wife Shaina. They actually gave me my start in marketing, and kind of from there, it snowballed into not just marketing or not just social media but marketing for B2B SaaS, for e-commerce, everything on the organic spectrum like you mentioned: social, email, events—all of my favorite things, basically.
Nikki Lindgren: Love it! Yeah, and Autumn and I personally met through, I think, a women in e-commerce Slack channel, and she was great at getting me involved at Northbeam while you were working there in some of the events you had. So, I really appreciate that, and it's really great to have you back on our side, interviewing and doing this podcast with us.
Autumn Morgan: Yeah, I'm excited. I think when I first reached out to you on the women in e-commerce Slack channel, it was to be a guest for Northbeam’s webinar that I started up for them. So, it's cool to have that complete 180 on your own podcast now.
Nikki Lindgren: Yes, couldn’t agree more. So, let’s kick it off with a softball. We generally speak to a lot of brands within the wellness, e-commerce, fashion, beauty, and lifestyle lanes. Are there any new products that you’ve recently discovered that you’re excited to press purchase on or have recently purchased that you want to tell our audience about?
Autumn Morgan: Yeah, I have really sensitive skin, so I have to be very careful about any products that I use. So, typically, I mostly use non-comedogenic makeup products or beauty products. But I keep hearing about Il Makiage, and I’ve heard good things. So, I’m excited but also a little hesitant to like bite the bullet and try it out, but I keep hearing good things.
Nikki Lindgren: Yes, I own a couple Il Makiage products, and I think their assortment is just continuing to get stronger and stronger. So, I’m pro-Il Makiage for you to give a whirl in your next go for purchasing cosmetics.
Autumn Morgan: Awesome, yeah, I think I definitely will be adding it to the list next time I go to Ulta or I have a Sephora gift card that's burning a hole in my wallet, so I’ll probably use that.
Nikki Lindgren: Love it. Well, the whole premise of this show is really to help marketers understand what has worked really successfully for you in your past and current marketing initiatives and things that have flopped. So, I'll let you choose if you want to talk about something that was super successful or something that maybe was a dud as our starting point.
Autumn Morgan: A former client of mine, Northbeam, actually was kind of looking to make more out of their work with their partner marketing team and all of the partnerships that they were cultivating. So, I helped them create a popular newsletter and then a weekly webinar that actually worked really, really well—especially just kind of using that content across all of their channels and really repurposing it. So, turning the webinar into bite-size video chunks that they could then put on their socials or that they could share at the events that they were doing. So, just really trying to make a cohesive strategy that incorporated all of their organic channels, plus all of their partner channels that they were already cultivating.
Nikki Lindgren: Yeah, I can relate to this a lot because, as a service-based business, I feel like it's a unique skill set to kind of pull all of this knowledge together and find ways to disperse it. Did you run into any roadblocks in getting this kicked off the ground for this particular brand?
Autumn Morgan: They already had a weekly newsletter that they were sending out, but it was only to share information about the current state of media buying. It had nothing to do with, like, “Here are our new partners” or “Here are other activities that we’re doing” or “Here are the events we’re going to.” So, there was a little bit of pushback internally on, like, “Why do we need a second newsletter when we already have something we’re sending out weekly? We’re just going to make our audience upset with us and, like, completely trash our open and click-through rates on the newsletter we already have.” So, that was a little bit difficult, like that was a hurdle to get over—just trying to make sure that it was clear that, one, you know, our subscribers wouldn’t be upset about receiving these additional communications, and two, that if we were going to do an entirely new newsletter, that we had information that people would actually care to read about inside of it.
Nikki Lindgren: Yeah, and I love, I mean, having kind of experienced some of that firsthand as a subscriber of Northbeam’s and, like, you know, having been on the weekly webinar, I know a little bit about both sides as a consumer of it and now being involved in it. What were some of the KPIs that you kind of like set out to think through or to measure yourself against?
Autumn Morgan: So, it was kind of, you know, dual KPIs: one for the newsletter itself, which was we really wanted to make sure that open rates across both newsletters stayed consistent, if not increased, and then the click-through rates as well. With kind of longer-term KPIs being any client closures or additional revenue that came in, because if we were going to be spending the money on, you know, new tools for the newsletter or the time it would take to create it, it needed to have some actual profit in the long term. And then for the webinar, kind of the same thing, but we also wanted to make sure that there was a solid subscriber increase week over week. So that was a big thing that we looked at just over the first three months to make sure that it was an actual initiative that made sense to kind of go into for the business.
Nikki Lindgren: I appreciate you walking us through those stats, and it seems like a perfect alignment of so many different objectives and goals and ways to execute it. So, I love that you were able to do that with this one particular brand. You've worked with B2B and direct-to-consumer. What are there any differences that are, you know, so obvious to someone as deep in the industry as you are, that maybe the rest of us outsiders don’t get? Because, like you, my customer is a brand, but my brand’s customers are obviously the consumers.
Autumn Morgan: The biggest thing I’m seeing as a difference is the approach to data privacy. So, if you're a SaaS company, you want to not only protect that of the end client but also those of the B2B company itself. So, there's a lot more data protection that needs to go into running a SaaS brand and selling services to B2B companies versus DTC. The customer's approach to their privacy and their data protection is different compared to a company. A company wants to guard other people’s data, and then consumers are like, "Well, if I'm going to give you information, I want to make sure that you're going to keep it safe but also make sure that it even makes sense for you to have access to that data." So, that's a whole other consideration that a DTC brand might need to make. And I know Google has pushed off some of their privacy changes, right? They were supposed to happen last year in 2024, and they're happening, I think, this year, but I haven't even read up on the full impacts all of the changes will have to the direct-to-consumer space too. So, definitely something top of mind.
Nikki Lindgren: We talked about, you know, a really strong success story you had in tying all the data together for a service-based business. Any examples of things that you tested and assumed would obviously work (that's why you tested them) but the plan and the outcome didn’t go according to plan?
Autumn Morgan: One of my clients, I convinced them to go on to a social channel that they hadn’t been on yet. Initially, we expected that it would be a really solid channel for them, mostly because they were a direct-to-consumer technology that is supposed to help with studying for the SAT or studying for any sort of math test. And they have the dual purpose or the dual ICP of students and parents, depending on the age of the student. So, we had the thought of kind of going on Reddit and trying that and seeing if that would work. Unfortunately, there was a larger need for time to kind of get ingratiated in Reddit than I’d initially anticipated. So, it seemed like it could have worked, but we didn’t have the time to trade off for testing it as much as I would have liked.
Nikki Lindgren: Interesting. And now in retrospect, how much time do you think it needs? How much time does it require in terms of weeks or months to become established or to get to the place you were aiming to get this brand to on Reddit?
Autumn Morgan: I’d say at least six months, probably. Unfortunately, we had a very short runway of time to try to make sure that the investors were happy with anything that we were going to be doing marketing-wise. They wanted really quick wins. So, I would have said a minimum of six months to just keep this brand really going strongly on Reddit, finding the right subreddits to actually be posting in, and cultivating the Reddit Karma. I think that’s what it’s called. You know, making sure they’re not just karma farming, basically, and like posting random clickbait.
Nikki Lindgren: How much time do you think needs to be spent on Reddit over that six-month period?
Autumn Morgan: I generally recommend like one to two hours a day on just social listening on channels. And that goes for any social channel. Like, if you’re trying to grow on Instagram, you know, actually comment on things and like comment on people’s posts that you would want to see your content. Same with LinkedIn or even Twitter, because people care more about their own content and the comments you’re making on that. The more you show an interest in what they’re talking about, the reciprocity kind of comes naturally, where they’re like, “Oh, well, I like this person or I like this brand. They comment a lot. They have a great personality. They have a great standing as an actual brand that talks the talk and walks the walk.” So, like an hour to two a day—so five to 10 hours a week on social listening alone—not counting actually creating the content and posting your own stuff.
Nikki Lindgren: Are you finding when you do tests like Reddit, is the strategy for what your social posts are, etc., quite different than what you would do on, like, Instagram or X? How specialized does the approach need to be for new channels?
Autumn Morgan: Yeah, I mean, I'd say it depends on the channel itself. So, like, Reddit for instance, is similar to TikTok in that people expect you to be very real. They expect you to showcase who you are as a brand or who you are as an individual, if you're trying to cultivate a person’s personal branding. Versus Instagram, it still has an assumption of authenticity, but it's a little bit more cultivated. So, what I mean by that is, like, Instagram—you have the pretty images, and it's a very visual platform. You want to make sure that everything is cohesive and your grid looks good, but also that the content is top-notch. Reddit, it’s top-notch content, but above it being pretty, it's about it being authentic and real. Quality over looks, and even the writing standards are a little bit lower on Reddit than you might see on Twitter or Instagram or even LinkedIn.
Nikki Lindgren: What do you find is the biggest challenge that you're dealing with in leadership in terms of just getting into the modern trends of social media? Because I imagine some brands that are maybe managed by more mature audiences or have VCs that are established and mature as well, sometimes they have a hard time moving forward with this more minimal, maybe less curated, cohesive, perfect approach. How do you deal with that?
Autumn Morgan: So, that hasn’t been too big of a challenge for me with my clients. More often, the clients want kind of control over every aspect. And sometimes for them, it’s, you know, they see the next big thing and they go, “Why aren’t we doing that?” And it’s like 10 new things in one week, and you’re like, “That doesn’t fit. You know, you have to kind of slow them down a little bit,” versus me having to convince them to do new things, if that makes sense. A lot of my clients tend to be newer founders, or they just want explosive growth, and so they want to try everything and throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. And so, I spend a little bit more time hurting cats, and like, slowing them down versus encouraging them to do new things.
Nikki Lindgren: Sounds like a good problem to have. I mean, I guess a variety of problems also helps. Great, well, I appreciate you walking through all those details related to social in particular and Reddit. I love the idea of doing more on Reddit. Even as an ads agency here at my firm, Pen, we do dedicated tests with Reddit ads, but it’s never really like an evergreen campaign or program that we run for brands. It’s more like product launches or they’re going after a new market, and so we temporarily test as a plus-up.
Autumn Morgan: Yeah, I mean, Reddit is a pretty solid channel, but I don’t see a lot of brands taking advantage of it. And if you find the right subreddits, you can really see kind of growth skyrocket from there. Obviously, it’s organic, so you can pay for ads, but I focus more on organic social. So, that takes a little bit longer, but the karma is slow coming at first. But once it’s there, it almost snowballs.
Nikki Lindgren: Well, maybe we’ll take researching Reddit a little more seriously in our future plans as well. Switching gears, when you think about the businesses you’re trying to work with as a consultancy, what are you finding are some of the changes in the landscape towards what these people are looking for when engaging with a consultant like you to execute some of their owned media?
Autumn Morgan: I mentioned this briefly earlier, but data privacy is becoming a much bigger focus for a lot of the brands and SaaS companies that I’m working with. So, there’s been a number of privacy-centric solutions coming into place just in the last year to really help with maintaining compliance across not just the statewide laws that have gone into effect in the United States but also just around the world. You know, you have the GDPR as one of the most commonly known privacy and data compilations, but there are so many others out there that brands looking to expand their reach have to become aware of and have to really cement their strategies around. So, I’ve been seeing a lot of that lately.
Nikki Lindgren: So, you’re going hard on the data privacy as one should. One in our lane should be thinking about that very seriously. Is the major change that brands and businesses are looking for when validating and figuring out who should be their partners?
Autumn Morgan: Love it. Looking ahead, you're probably going to say some of the same stuff for trends of 2025 in general across the marketing landscape. Anything else from trends that you're observing that you’ll be picking up on?
Nikki Lindgren: I know it's still early in the year, so I think talking about the year in its entirety would be great to get some context around.
Autumn Morgan: We still have the question of like TikTok and is it going to stay in the US, or is it just going to have this 90-day stopgap and then poof, it's gone, and everyone tries to go to Rednote now? So, I think that's going to be a big question that's answered in 2025. There’s going to be a shifting for sure of the landscape in terms of social channels that consumers are going to be going on to and that brands are going to be trying to follow the consumers and really figure out strategies around. So whether that's TikTok in a slightly different capacity or it's a new channel like Rednote, I think that’s going to be a big trend of just shuffling around of the social channels and of the focus for both consumers and brands.
Nikki Lindgren: When we're kind of in this interim phase where we're like, we're not sure what happens with TikTok over time, what are you advising brands to do? Like, are they doubling down and going harder in more established channels, or are they still pushing TikTok kind of hard in terms of a growth channel?
Autumn Morgan: If you've been seeing success on TikTok, take advantage of it while you still can, with the caveat being that I know a lot of TikTok users are actually moving to Rednote, like I said, which we’ll see what happens there. I think that’s more of a reaction versus a long-term decision. But also, a lot of consumers are going to YouTube, so they’re expecting their creators to start posting more on YouTube as well. So, if you don’t have a YouTube channel, take advantage of that while still taking advantage of TikTok while you still can, because if it keeps going and you keep seeing success, then you’ll at least have been the brand that has continued to do so and you've been very consistent on there. And if it goes away, you still have the benefits of having been on there and reaping those rewards while you still could.
Nikki Lindgren: What do you think? I’ve heard some things in beauty and in fashion about Substack and just more like blog, long content coming to the forefront. Are you observing any trends like that in the work you're doing?
Autumn Morgan: I haven’t been working as closely in Substack, but a lot of freelancers and consultants that I work with have been seeing it a lot with their clients. So, definitely a big name. I think it could be worth looking into if you haven’t already, but I haven’t been working with it personally.
Nikki Lindgren: IWell, it seems like the writers and the authors and the things you're doing in traditional media could leverage some Substack setups as well. Substack... Stacks, confusing stuff. Well, getting close to the end of the show, we’ll wrap with two more questions. The first is really exciting for us to hear because we have some younger listeners who are early in their marketing careers or their careers in general. What advice would you give your younger self if you’re starting all over again in this line?
Autumn Morgan: I’d say don’t be afraid to ask questions, and I know that’s probably the more cliché response. But what I mean by that is, if you see somebody in a position that you aspire to be in someday—whether you want to be an event producer or a director of marketing—a lot of people are willing to answer questions from somebody who's looking to learn, as long as you're not trying to sell them on something. People are happy to help. So even just sending a quick note of like, “Hey, you know, I’m so and so, I'm aspiring to do this, I would love if you have the time to give me a little bit of advice,” people are always willing to help. Barring that, if you're afraid of reaching out to someone on social media that you don't know, ask the leaders at the company that you're working at how they kind of crafted their career, what path they took, what they wish they'd done differently, and you can really learn a lot from those people in those positions. I still keep in touch with Derek Haney. I consider him my mentor, a very close friend. I love Shaina and consider her a mentor as well. So we still keep in touch, and they've helped me so much in my career over the years in a way that I would not have gotten if I hadn't been afraid or if I hadn't asked all the questions when they first hired me, and been excited to learn and excited to not necessarily take on new things, even though I was, but just do better whenever I could and learn from them and figure out where they wish they had changed their career trajectory and what they were really happy with.
Nikki Lindgren: I do think it's underrated, and I think it's interesting because now, having recorded many episodes, a lot of the recommendations here are pretty standard—ones that maybe you've heard before, for better or for worse. But I think the interesting piece for me is like I still didn’t take advantage of it, even if I heard some of these things or knew that was the right thing to do in my early 20s. I was still too afraid, for one reason or another, to take action. So I appreciate you going deeper into asking questions and finding mentors and just kind of looking out for yourself.
Nikki Lindgren: I love it when you're not getting insights from your mentors and just, you know, people in your network. Where are you going to stay up on trends, new things, skills you want to learn? What’s your go-to platform or resource?
Autumn Morgan: I’m in a lot of Slack channels, and that’s literally how we met. But people tend to share a lot of insights in those channels. So anytime I see someone post about a new course that they’ve created or that they’ve taken, I try to look at it and see if it would make sense to do for myself as well. I’ve found a lot of really amazing stuff, and I appreciate that.
Nikki Lindgren: So, in wrapping, how can people get in touch with you or follow you if they want to learn more about what you've been up to? Maybe tap you as a mentor they can rely on in the future?
Autumn Morgan: You can reach out to me on LinkedIn. It's just Autumn Morgan. I'm the one with the blue shirt and the blonde hair—pretty hard to miss, the super blonde. Or you can email me at autumn@autumnmorgansconsulting.com.
Nikki Lindgren: Autumn, it was so great to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for having me. It was great!
Autumn Morgan: Alright, have a good one, and until next time, take care!
