The Pennock Knockdown: Building a Brand in the Teen Wellness Space: Insights from Dara Erck, Founder of Sam + Leo
Watch or Listen to Episode 8 of The Pennock Knockdown.
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Dara Erck is the founder of Sam + Leo, a teen mental health brand offering functional gummy vitamins aimed at supporting sleep, energy, eye health, immunity, and stress management. With a background in global health from her time working at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Dara's passion for teen wellness led her to pivot from clean body care products to creating her own supplement line. As a mother of two teenage boys, she is deeply invested in providing clean, effective products for teens. Dara is a resourceful and curious entrepreneur, continuously learning from startup communities to navigate the competitive CPG space. She's focused on building authentic marketing strategies and partnerships that promote mental health awareness and wellness for the next generation.
Brands Mentioned
Transcript
Nikki Lindgren
Welcome to another episode of The Pennock Knockdown, a podcast where we unpack key strategies and tactics for digital marketing leaders. I'm joined today by Dara Eric of Sam + Leo. Dara, super excited to have you on the show today. I'd love for you to spend a couple minutes telling us about Sam + Leo and what you've done in your past to get you to this stage in your career.
Dara Erck
Great, thanks so much for having me. Yeah, so Sam + Leo is a teen mental health brand with a line of functional gummy vitamins for teens. So sleep, energy, eye health, immunity, and some relax for stress issues. And really a journey of my own interest and passion about supporting teens in mental health. My background is actually in global health, mostly with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and working in lots of different capacities in the health arena. I noticed there was a gap in the market for clean teen products.
Nikki Lindgren
And you have kids yourself, right?
Dara Erck
Correct, yeah, I have two teen boys, 17 and 14. So I was looking for products for them.
Nikki Lindgren
And how long has Sam + Leo been around?
Dara Erck
It's a great question. So obviously in the founder journey, there's been some pivoting and iterations. We actually started as a clean body company, so a deodorant and foot odor wipe. And there were personal life challenges going on, and the pandemic had just started. So we paused that and pivoted to the supplement space, because that was a space I really noticed was missing. We originally launched about a year and a half ago just to test the market.
Then, only online, we had similar struggles as all founders do. And with this current formula and product line, we really just launched this year in May. So they've only been on the market for about six or seven months, sold on my website and Amazon, and we are launching in Whole Foods this year. So a quick ramp-up.
Nikki Lindgren
That is super exciting. Well, congratulations! I know all the founder journeys usually involve a couple of pivots and turns, so not unusual at all to hear about how you started and where you are now. But going into the product space must have been really new compared to the work you were doing with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. How has that journey into product been?
Dara Erck
Yeah, it's been interesting. I think I don't know what I don't know, and it's been one foot in front of the other. Everything from product formulation to package design to website marketing, all of it is new for me. I'm a curious person, resourceful, and so I think it's doing my own research. I don't have a co-founder, but I have definitely leaned on startup communities, particularly startup CPG, which is a great community, and my local communities here in Colorado, such as Naturally Colorado. Really just knowing where to look, where to ask, and getting some mentors along the way because I'm brand new to the CPG world.
Nikki Lindgren
Love it. It's funny because of all the Naturally Local bases, I've heard from multiple people that the Colorado chapter is so amazing. You're the second person in a week who's said that about Colorado in particular.
Dara Erck
Yeah, it actually started in Colorado. They were the first chapter.
Nikki Lindgren
Oh, I didn’t know that. Alright, I’ll have to check it out.
Great. Well, moving into some of the planned questions, the first softball we like to throw your way is related to products within your industry that you're maybe really excited to try or have started trying. Anything coming to market that's really exciting to you?
Dara Erck
Yeah, I’m definitely in a crowded space with supplements, but looking across CPG as well. So one, anything that's looking at supporting kids and teens—I see a lot more in the little kid space, and looking at wellness, not just a multivitamin, but in the functional space. I'm interested in seeing more of the clean proteins coming out, and thinking about where that could support kids, teens, but also all of us.
And then, because of my background and my product, the energy drink space. I'm very sensitive to other founders’ journeys and supportive of them, but it's really been seeing an impact on the tweens and teens and how much energy drinks they are consuming. It’s scary. So being able to offer an alternative to that, but also looking at those products that are more conscious about who they’re marketing to and possibly using cleaner ingredients is really interesting to me.
Nikki Lindgren
Yeah, love it. Very exciting topics. And I also have young kids, so keeping my eye on some of the similar trends you just mentioned. Thanks for walking through that. I’d love to get into some of your marketing playbook. Maybe start us off by running down something that’s been going on in your marketing mix that has worked phenomenally well for you.
Dara Erck
Yeah, this has been a really interesting journey for me, particularly as a category creator because people aren’t naturally looking for teen supplements. How do you do brand awareness in that space? It's been trial and error, with many wins and losses. But I would say what’s working is that authentic voice and reaching out to parents. Whether that's using my own voice as the founder, sharing my journey, why I’m supporting teens—that’s been really effective, mostly on Instagram, and then boosting that content. Not necessarily ad spend, though. We could talk about Google and Meta ads, but they haven’t worked for this brand as much. Really leaning into podcasts and talking about my journey has also driven attention to the brand, from two different angles. One about parenting, supporting teen mental health, and education systems, and the other about my experience and the ‘why’ behind the brand or startup stories, CPG, and women founders. Both of those seem to drive attention, but from different angles. So, in summary, more of the authentic voice, the ‘why’ behind the brand, rather than just targeting the product.
Nikki Lindgren
Interesting. That’s really great to understand. I think the authenticity angle has been buzzing for a bit, but giving the context of your founder journey, using those as boosted assets, maybe not with objectives of ad spend to convert, but really just creating awareness with the right audience, paired with podcasts to reinforce that authenticity, is really a smart approach. Are there any channels, maybe ones you’ve already alluded to, where paid media hasn’t worked well for you? Are there other channels that just surprised you in terms of not performing as expected?
Dara Erck
Yeah, Google and Meta for sure. A lot of people I’ve talked to, people in marketing or who want to support the brand, they say, "You’re going to kill it; this is going to work." It’s like the textbook playbook. This is a great product, aesthetically pleasing. But for whatever reason, it doesn’t land on those platforms. I think it’s because people aren’t necessarily looking for teen gummy vitamins. The space is very crowded and competitive, especially in the kid market. So I think there needs to be more brand awareness and storytelling before we even get to Google or Meta. Also, driving to a landing page didn’t work. They might click and look, but it didn’t convert.
I also found that my sales are really coming from Amazon. We can talk about that for different reasons in the Amazon ad space, but as a consumer and a mom, I’m buying on Amazon all the time. The process and purchase is easy. To make a purchase on Shopify is going to take a lot more incentive or giveaway, something that just wasn’t converting like Amazon. My product is lightweight, doesn’t melt, doesn’t freeze, doesn’t break, so it’s an easy product to sell on those platforms, where I know other products don’t work as well for margins.
The other place that’s been interesting but I don’t have a lot of data on is the wholesale boutique space—like Fair. I was told it would sell amazing in that space for smaller boutiques or pharmacies, but it didn’t convert.
Nikki Lindgren
Mm-hmm.
Dara Erck
For whatever reason, it didn’t work, so I haven’t spent a lot of time on that path. But it might be an interesting space given that Whole Foods is investing and wants to put us on their shelves. Hopefully, that will lead to more conversions.
Nikki Lindgren
Yeah, it seems like it will have a positive domino effect once everyone’s aware of the Whole Foods situation. When we go back to your DTC play and Amazon, are you finding that the subscription model, where consumers are getting it on repeat, is beneficial? Are you doing that yet?
Dara Erck
Great question. So on Shopify, I offered a subscription model, but it didn’t convert. It wasn’t working. But on Amazon, absolutely. Once I was able to turn on the subscribe-and-save option, it really worked. The supplement is meant to be taken every day, so ideally, people will become repeat buyers. We’ve definitely seen the subscription data trending up. Once people try it and taste it, they’re in. That’s the other place we’re trying to figure out—getting the product into the right hands for sampling.
Nikki Lindgren
Love it. That’s great insight. And I think the Amazon setup is often underestimated, but you really pointed out a compelling reason to think about it more strategically. So, Fair for the B2B space. I'm curious because I've worked with medical tech devices in the past, and we faced similar challenges with getting to consumers in an affordable manner. What we ended up pivoting to was finding key opinion leaders and healthcare providers to help push the product. I don’t know if you’ve found any connections with different types of professionals who are helping promote your business.
Dara Erck
Yeah, that’s a really great point. I’m just early in starting on that journey from two different perspectives. One, a lot of therapists are definitely interested in it. A lot of therapists working with tweens and teens see kids from 3 to 7 p.m., mostly at the end of the school day. They walk in with energy drinks, or they’re tired or stressed out. So, they’re super excited about the product. If I can leave samples there or give them a basket of samples, it’s a great inroad, and they can test it right there. The product also serves as a conversation and tool to talk about wellness, how to take care of yourselves. They ask, “Are you really tired, or having trouble falling asleep?” and we get to talk about alternatives.
The other space is the dietitian and nutritionist element. I’ve just started to navigate that, having early conversations with influencers on Instagram or one-off conversations—not necessarily to sell the product, but to find the right voice to back it and maintain that authentic connection. I do do affiliate marketing and offer those promotions, but I don’t want it to feel salesy; I want that genuine connection. Finding that partnership with a nutritionist or dietitian is really important to me and ensuring they understand the ‘why’ behind recommending it. So, I’m early in my journey there, but definitely looking into it.
Nikki Lindgren
So you’re looking at these affiliates more as brand ambassadors who help establish or further the reputation you're already trying to create, rather than just pushing promo sites and discount links for sales?
Dara Erck
Exactly, and that’s really important to me.
Nikki Lindgren
Yeah, love it. Great. Well, I appreciate the rundown of so many of the owned and earned tactics. We did talk a little bit about what you're doing on Amazon from a setup perspective. Maybe you were alluding to ads working slightly more successfully there. Is that a true assumption, or have you been running ads on Amazon?
Dara Erck
Yeah, I’ve done different iterations of it when working with some Amazon experts. We’re still learning what works and what doesn’t work because it’s such a crowded space. I haven’t optimized for video yet, and I know that would be a huge conversion. Right now, they’ve just been static ads, but keyword targeting ads are really important, and refining that is key. I’ve definitely noticed that it’s in the eye and energy space where I can stand out more than in sleep and immunity, looking at what the competitors are doing. But I’ve also been thinking creatively about how to approach it. For example, with eye health and screen time, I might try blue light-blocking glasses as alternative keywords, rather than just focusing on the supplement space. Being a little creative with the ad space has been interesting.
My advice is that you need support to do it well. Someone needs to be in that account almost every day, monitoring it, especially for keywords or negative keywords. I can’t imagine managing that all on my own right now.
Nikki Lindgren
Yeah, I can imagine that’s a lot. You really need someone with their finger on the pulse of those ad spends. As you’re talking about creative ad strategies, one thought I had is that search ads on TikTok could be set up similarly to Amazon. Pinterest could be another platform to look into, especially for moms and forward-planning. Some of the strategies you’ve seen success with on Amazon might work similarly on social platforms too.
Dara Erck
Yep, definitely.
Nikki Lindgren
Awesome. Well, I really appreciate all the insights related to how marketing is going for you—some of the wins and areas that haven’t worked as well. It seems like you’ve got a great partner helping you on Amazon. When you look for partners in other areas to help with your business, what are some of the key qualities you look for in a partner to make sure they’re a good fit to help you navigate your growth and reputation?
Dara Erck
That’s an excellent question. I have lots of thoughts about this. So, I think in two buckets. One is we get a lot of references and referrals, and there are so many great people out there. It’s not a lack of quality people, but it’s about how the partnership is defined. A lot of people are eager to give me a strategy or a playbook and that’s great, but I actually need someone who’s going to jump in and roll up their sleeves and do it with me or for me—or at least tell me, “Here’s what we need to do: Film this content specifically.” I’m at a point where my bandwidth is limited. So, it’s about finding someone who can also be a partner in the implementation, not just someone who offers advice.
I need someone who can help me phase the work. I need to know that, in the next three months, we’re going to do X, and in six months, we’ll do Y. I can’t do everything all at once, so knowing that we’re working toward long-term goals in phases is really important to me.
The second key part is authenticity and understanding the brand. In social media marketing, especially with Gen Z and millennial-heavy people doing the work, it’s tough because they’re not my target audience. My audience is parents, so having a partner who can articulate the voice to parents and present the product in an authentic, real way is essential. It’s less about the perfect aesthetic and more about depth and authenticity. It’s been challenging to find someone who’s affordable, can execute well, and also understands the voice of my brand.
Nikki Lindgren
Yeah, I can imagine that’s tough. When every dollar matters so much, it adds that much more pressure. Great insights though. So, we’ve talked a little bit about what you’re working on now and some of the new developments coming forward. Anything else from your 2025 strategy or new initiatives? You mentioned phasing the work—what phases will you be tackling first?
Dara Erck
We haven’t touched on it, but the retail launch is huge for 2025. And especially if it’s regional. I don’t have exact store numbers yet, but that will be part of the strategy. One thing we’ll focus on is boosting creative in those markets so people are aware of it, and then driving that awareness to stores. I’ll also be demoing in-store to engage consumers.
I’m thinking about those partnerships we mentioned earlier, whether with therapists, dietitians, or nutritionists, and getting them on board in these markets as well. A pie-in-the-sky idea is getting involved in events where kids and teens are—sporting events, for example—and giving out more samples. Some of my friends and people in the business are already doing this, bringing it to their kids’ games. Word of mouth has been great. It’s just a matter of bandwidth to make it happen.
Nikki Lindgren
Yeah, and I think there could be an approach of everyday mom ambassadors who are active in their kids' lives to help promote the brand. I love that.
Dara Erck
Exactly!
Nikki Lindgren
Awesome. Well, we’re about to wrap up, but before I ask people how they can get in touch with you, I just have one final question. What advice would you give your younger self about starting in this line of business?
Dara Erck
I would say to trust yourself and your intuition. We talk a lot about founders overcoming fear, even the fear of failure. But I think the real focus should be on trusting yourself and your instincts. Even if you make a mistake or need to pivot, trust that. You're going to get a thousand opinions from people, some who are experts and some who care about you, but at the end of the day, you really have to trust yourself.
Nikki Lindgren
And let me dig a little further there. If someone is having a hard time trusting themselves, how do you shake that fear?
Dara Erck
For me, it’s sometimes stepping away and taking time for myself—whether that’s walks, clearing my head, or just getting away from the actual work. I think about how the decision makes me feel or how it moves me forward. One of my favorite lines to use is, “What if it all works out?” We tend to always think about the worst-case scenario, but if you flip it and think, "What if it all works out?" that opens up so much more room for opportunity.
Nikki Lindgren
I love that. “What if it all works out?” That’s a great perspective to have. Great thing to end on. If people want to get in touch with you or follow the brand, where can they do that?
Dara Erck
Yes, so definitely check out our website at shop.samandleo.com. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at @shopSamAndLeo. And we’re also on Amazon, with a page there, and we’ll be in Whole Foods later this year.
Nikki Lindgren
That’s so exciting! Dara, it was really great to have you on the show today. Thanks so much for your time.
Dara Erck
Thanks for having me. Great conversation!
Nikki Lindgren
Absolutely!
